The Space Show
The Space Show
The Space Show focuses on timely and important issues influencing the development of outer-space commerce, space tourism,space exploration and space development. The Space Show is committed to facilitating our becoming a space-faring nation and society with a growing and self-sustaining space-faring economy. The Space Show also focuses on other related subjects of interest to us all.
Station feed:  Created by: David Livingston |
Created on: 12 May 2005 Language: English |
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Adam Crowl, Sunday, 10-6-13 (43.13MB; download) -- Guest: Adam Crowl. Topics: Adam talks about his chapter, "Starship Pioneers," in the Starship Century book plus interstellar travel possibilities & technologies. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. We welcomed Adam Crowl to the program for a one hour twenty minute discussion on interstellar travel, propulsion and technology potentials. During the first segment, we talked about the book Starship Century and his chapter in it, "Starship Pioneers." the early rocket pioneers and their thoughts on interstellar travel as the idea as it has has been with us and our imagination forever. We talked about theoretical backing, actual capabilities, time lines, and more. Some of the technologies were addressed such as nuclear fusion plus some of the models he showed pictures of in his chapter in the book. We also talked about solar sail and then I asked about human flights to Mars and the Moon as stepping stones for interstellar flight. Antigravity was discussed along with antimatter, lasers, proton beams, and more. Our callers asked about these futuristic technologies and even the types of interstellar missions that could unfold down the road. In the second segment, faster than light travel came up with Dr. Harold (Sonny) White and his work. More calls came in regarding gravitational theory, particle physics, and beam propulsion. Another John called in wondering about the accuracy of today's interstellar speculation. Multi-generational starships were discussed plus Adam made a point saying the profits from the book go to support interstellar research. Check this out at the book's website, www.starshipcentury.com. As the program was ending, Randy sent in a note about the inspirational and motivational value of interstellar travel discussions. Post your comments/questions on The Space Show blog above. You can contact our guest through his website and read his blog at www.crowlspace.com. Selected by: David Livingston [ stations ], Mon, 07 Oct 2013 16:32:17 UTC
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Robert Walker, Friday, 10-4-13 (45.26MB; download) -- Guest: Robert Walker. Topics: Humans to Mars and other destinations in the solar system. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. We welcomed Robert Walker to the program for a 1 hour 28 minute discussion about his analysis, conclusions, and thoughts regarding humans putting colonies on Mars and elsewhere in the solar system. You can read his articles at www.science20.com/robertinventor. Robert has a YouTube channel at www.youtube/marsandspace. I urge listeners to read his articles as they are thought provoking. Though you might not agree with his conclusions, keep an open mind, his articles are very informative and what he has to say should be part of our human spaceflight to Mars discussion. In other words, don't dismiss or blow off what Robert and others are saying about the issues he brought to our attention today. We started the discussion with his August 14th op-ed, "Ten Reasons Not To Live On Mars - Great Place to Explore." Rather than going through each of the ten items, for purposes of this summary and our discussion, we will talk about planetary protection and making sure humans do not contaminate any part of Mars for scientific exploration. Robert referenced the UN as well as NASA and other nation's Planetary Protection Policy against human contamination on Mars and the provisions in the Outer Space Treaty that impose this obligation on all signing countries. Planetary Protection has been discussed before on several Space Show programs but Robert talked about it in the context of why humans to Mars missions will not be allowed and should not be undertaken. He is much more supportive of orbiting missions such as Inspiration Mars or even going to Phobos and Deimos. Most of our first segment is about this subject. We also talked about sample return missions using the ISS or the Moon, exoplanets, lunar settlement, asteroid resources, and space exploration in general. In the second segment, I opened asking him about his short article on the true color of a specifically discovered exoplanet which was cobalt blue as a result of a continuous rain of liquid glass. Robert got several listener emails about planetary protection, Elon Musk and his plans to settle Mars, ways to avoid contamination, and more. He even got a question or two asking why in the literature ETs that have come to other in the stories (maybe), etc. don't seem to have a regard for avoiding contaminating Earth. This was a fun discussion. Another listener asked him a question about his musical and math background and using music to communicate with ET in sci fi movies, wondering if there was any science in fact to the idea of musical communication. Another fun discussion. Jody asked about going to a dry part of Mars with humans to avoid contamination. Don't miss Robert's reply to this scenario. Robert also spoke about teleportation, saying it was key to space exploration. Please post your comments/questions on The Space Show blog. You can email Robert Walker at support@robertinventor.com. His website is www.robertinventor.com. Selected by: David Livingston [ stations ], Sat, 05 Oct 2013 02:10:57 UTC
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The John Batchelor Show "Hotel Mars," Wednesday,10-2-13 (5.93MB; download) -- Guests: John Batchelor, Dr. Bob Richards, Dr. David Livingston: Topics: Moon Express, the Google Lunar X-Prize, Lunar resource development. You are invited to comment, ask questions, and discuss the Space Show program/guest(s) on the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments, questions, and any discussion must be relevant and applicable to Space Show programming. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are not permitted without prior written consent from The Space Show (even if for personal use) & are a violation of the Space Show copyright. We do not permit the commercial use of any Space Show program or part thereof, nor do we permit Space Show programs to be edited, placed on YouTube, or other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted in news articles, papers, academic & research work but must be cited or referenced in the proper citation format. Contact Dr. Livingston for questions about our copyright and trademark policies which we do enforce. This program is archived on The Space Show website, podcasting, and blog sites with permission from John Batchelor. Please visit the John Batchelor Show website for more information about this fine program, www.johnbatchelorshow.com. Remember, your Amazon Purchases Can Help Support The Space Show/OGLF (www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm).
During our 11 minute plus discussion, John, Dr. Bob Richards and I talked about Moon Express, the Google Lunar X-Prize competition, lunar water and resources, lunar commercial development, and the overall Moon Express plan of action which involves much more than winning the Google Lunar X-Prize competition. We talked about why the lunar southern hemisphere, south pole water, and even their planned sample return mission scheduled for around 2020. Please post any comments/questions you might have on The Space Show blog. You can contact any of us through drspace@thespaceshow.com.
Selected by: David Livingston [ stations ], Thu, 03 Oct 2013 15:50:58 UTC
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Dr. James (Jim) Hansen, Tuesday, 10-1-13 (62.00MB; download) -- the Moon, astronaut safety & more. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. We welcomed Dr. James (Jim) Hansen back to the program to discuss the biography of retired astronaut John Young which Dr. Hansen helped in writing. The book, "Forever Young A Life Of Adventure in Air and Space," is readily available at bookstores and Amazon. Remember, if you go through The Space Show/OGLF Amazon portal (instructions are on the blog, our website & the OGLF website), Amazon will make a contribution to The Space Show. The first segment of our nearly two hour program, Dr. Hansen and I started out with an early aviation history overview as I asked our guest about the idea that in space we are as advanced today as was the DC-3 to where aviation is today. This proved to be an interesting discussion, focusing not just on the DC-3 but NACA, the role of government in helping to develop advanced technologies and much more. We then turned our attention John Young. As you will hear, the book we are discussing was a biography written in first person and Jim was asked to help make it so. We talked about Young's focus on both astronaut safety and the NEO threat to Earth. We talked about John Young both on Apollo and his shuttle flights. The subject of space and aviation history came up again and we talked about the Enola Gay and what it took to display it at the Smithsonian as there was lots of opposition to doing so. Dr. Hansen then returned to the John Young book, he told us about his suggestions to turn Young's manuscript into a book & he described working with John and his wife on the project. Space history was also a topic in this segment as we talked about historians and authors often having their work amended by later versions of the history. Dr. Hansen cited some very famous examples when I said I wanted to rewrite my dissertation and correct my errors. In the second segment, Jim was asked about John Young and Mars. Jim said that John's preference was returning to the Moon, plus his focus on his concern for NEOs hitting Earth. But he did support being a multi-planet species. We asked Jim about his preference or comparison of Apollo & the Saturn 5 to the shuttle. Jim told us that John loved the shuttle and was fortunate to fly two shuttle missions. Doug called in and wanted to know Jim's perspective as a historian on the space frontier model common among space enthusiasts. The frontier metaphor sparked quite the conversation with the three of us. Dr. Hansen returned to talking about John Young's interest in returning to the Moon and why. Much was said in both segments about how shuttle should not have been cancelled nor should Constellation have been cancelled. Ben emailed us about astronauts and role models and do they have a responsibility to us in being role models. This also sparked an extensive conversation about astronauts, their role in society, what we make them into. Toward the end, Jim and I digressed into other areas of space, aviation, and political history. See www.thespaceshow.com or http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com to see the rest of this summary. Selected by: David Livingston [ stations ], Wed, 02 Oct 2013 15:55:55 UTC
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Charles Miller, Monday, 9-30-13 (49.05MB; download) -- Guest: Charles Miller. Topics: Commercial space, small satellites, commercial crew, human spaceflight & more. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. We welcomed Charles Miller back to The Space Show for this 1 hour 31 minute program. During the first segment, Charles talked about the future of commercial space, extending the life of the ISS, managing risk and uncertainty to maximize returns and benefits for commercial space, plus he used the company he co-founded, NanoRacks, as a commercial model utilizing the national lab ISS. We talked about commercial crew, the success of the Space Act Agreement for contracting and pockets of congressional resistance to the commercial and Space Act programs. In discussing commercial opportunities on the ISS, we also talked about CASIS and the role it is playing in bridging the gap and facilitating commercial companies using the ISS. Charles then talked about his company, NexGen Space LLC and he referenced the DARPA XS-1 Reusable Spaceplane. A listener asked our guest about a possible influx of commercial opportunities from outside the U.S. In response to this question, Charles talked about competing cultures and why the U.S. is so strong with its culture of innovation. Commercial crew, human spaceflight, and the need to spend 6 months training in Russia were discussed with the latter being an impediment. Suborbital demand was a topic as were the commercial efforts by Boeing, Sierra Nevada, ATK and other mainstream aerospace companies. In our second segment, we talked about Kickstarter and the use of crowd funding in the emerging commercial space industry. Innovation and low cost space access were key topics and themes for this segment. Listener Jack asked about space entrepreneurial management teams & what to look for in a quality team. I asked Charles to tell us where he thought the industry would be in ten years. Charles talked about small satellite constellations, far more affordability across the board, and a large growth space tourism industry. He also mentioned that the turning point will come when we have cheaper access to space than today. Toward the end of our discussion, Charles was asked for his suggestion for the best path to pursue for those seeking commercial space careers. In response, he talked about getting real hardware and flight experience & mentioned high schools that provide this experience. Please post your comments/questions on The Space Show blog per above. Charles Miller can be reached through me using drspace@thespaceshow.com. Selected by: David Livingston [ stations ], Tue, 01 Oct 2013 16:13:34 UTC
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Dr. Pat Hynes, Sunday, 9-29-13 (66.16MB; download) -- Guest: Dr. Patricia (Pat) Hynes. Topics: International Symposium for Personal and Commercial Spaceflight (ISPCS) in Las Cruces, NM, Oct. 16-17, 2013. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. We welcomed Dr. Pat Hynes back to the program to discuss this year's ISPCS. During the first segment of our 1 hour 58 minute program, Dr. Hynes introduced us to this year's symposium which is in Las Cruces from Oct. 16-17. For detailed symposium information, registration, and more, please visit http://www.ispcs.com. Pat started by telling us about attending a Virgin Galactic event in Mojave last week, including aspects of space medicine applicable to Virgin and human spaceflight. Next, Doug called on his way back from Vandenberg and he told us about seeing the Falcon 9 launch and his impressions, then he asked Pat about the suborbitals ramping up for orbital spaceflight and if that was in their plans. Pat said yes, talked about Point to Point Travel, some of the challenges, and orbital HSF in general. I also added some information to the discussion. During the balance of the first segment, Pat went through the first day of panels at the symposium offering highlights and insights not listed on the website. Later, she talked about speaker John Gertner and his book, "The Idea Factory," which addresses Bell Labs and innovation. Pat referred to this book, Bell Labs and Innovation several more times during our discussion. In the second segment, we picked up with the Wednesday afternoon program featuring Sandy Magnus, Executive Director, AIAA. The importance of Innovation remained a key thread in our discussion and it is a major theme of the symposium. During the balance of the second segment, Pat guided us through the agenda, again providing us with insights not listed on the website. We also talked about the social and networking aspects of the conference which are outstanding! IP was also discussed and the subject, including patents, is part of the symposium agenda. We also talked a lot about NASA Flight Opportunities. Near the end of our discussion, Pat talked about the tour of Spaceport America for Friday, Oct. 18. Please post your comments and questions on The Space Show blog URL above. You can contact Pat's office for more information by calling (575) 646-6414. Selected by: David Livingston [ stations ], Mon, 30 Sep 2013 16:47:33 UTC
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Dr. James Benford, Friday, 9-27-13 (47.07MB; download) -- Guest: Dr. James (Jim) Benford. Topics: Sailships, "Starship Century," interstellar travel, Fermi Paradox & more. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. We welcomed Dr. James (Jim) Benford to the program to discuss his book (he was the co-editor) "Starship Century," and his chapter, Sailships, plus his editing of the book. During our first segment of this 1 hour 26 minute discussion, Dr. Benford introduced us to Microwave Power Beaming, sailships, solar sails, terrestrial beamed power, in-space beamed power and more. We talked about microwave beaming as a possible space weapon, the storage of beamed energy, and the use of the millimeter band width for beamed power. Also in our first segment, we talked about possible time lines for development for interstellar travel. In this discussion, our guest used Alpha Centauri B as a reference point. Propulsion in general was discussed with a thumbs down for chemical rockets for doing anything like what we were talking about in this segment. Listeners asked questions as to why interstellar travel was important at this time given it is so far into the future. In our second segment, we talked about his goals in editing the book and the fact that if it is bought through the book's website, www.starshipcentury.com, the proceeds are donated to legitimate interstellar organizations and research. Jim listed several of the organizations being considered for receiving such proceeds and interestingly, most if not all have been guests on The Space Show over the years. Dr. Benford mentioned conferences and the Arthur C. Clarke Center at UCSD. We then talked about the Fermi Paradox and factor L as to the probabilities of finding intelligent life someplace other than Earth. Faster Than Light Travel was a discussion topic, Jim was asked what his non-space friends thought of his microwave beam power work and interstellar travel. A listener asked about students in these subject, particularly in the UK and the US. If you have comments or questions, post them on The Space Show blog. You can reach Dr. Benford through his website, www.jamesbenford.com. Selected by: David Livingston [ stations ], Sat, 28 Sep 2013 16:00:52 UTC
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John Batchelor Hotel Mars, William (Bill) Harwood, Wednesday, 9-25-13 (6.69MB; download) -- Guests: John Batchelor, William (Bill) Harwood, Dr. David Livingston: Topics: Recent ISS news, Cygnus, Soyuz, the Olympic Torch & more. You are invited to comment, ask questions, and discuss the Space Show program/guest(s) on the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments, questions, and any discussion must be relevant and applicable to Space Show programming. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are not permitted without prior written consent from The Space Show (even if for personal use) & are a violation of the Space Show copyright. We do not permit the commercial use of any Space Show program or part thereof, nor do we permit Space Show programs to be edited, placed on YouTube, or other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted in news articles, papers, academic & research work but must be cited or referenced in the proper citation format. Contact Dr. Livingston for questions about our copyright and trademark policies which we do enforce. This program is archived on The Space Show website, podcasting, and blog sites with permission from John Batchelor. Please visit the John Batchelor Show website for more information about this fine program, www.johnbatchelorshow.com. Remember, your Amazon Purchases Can Help Support The Space Show/OGLF (www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm).
During our 11 minute plus discussion, John, Bill Harwood and I talked about the ISS, the Soyuz 6 hour flight to the station, the Orbital Cygnus cargo craft and its birthing to the station, commercial research on the national lab, the Olympic Torch photo op EVA in November and much more. We also focused on NASA wanting more commercial science and research projects on the station. Please post any comments/questions you might have on The Space Show blog. You can contact any of us through drspace@thespaceshow.com.
Selected by: David Livingston [ stations ], Thu, 26 Sep 2013 16:39:05 UTC
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Dr. Pascal Lee, Tuesday, 9-24-13 (59.30MB; download) -- Guest: Dr. Pascal Lee. Topics: Dr. Lee discussed HSF for Mars, pending Mars mission, Mars science, Earth analogs & his new book, "Mission Mars." Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. We welcomed Dr. Pascal Lee back to the program to discussed HSF to Mars, pending Mars programs, his new children's book, "Mission Mars" (www.scholastic.com/missionmars). During the first segment of this 1 hour 58 minute program, Dr. Lee talked about our operating Mars rovers, Opportunity and Curiosity. He talked about Curiosity looking for organics and the confusion over not finding methane. I then asked our guest about the two potential HSF missions to Mars, Mars One and Inspiration Mars. As you will hear, Dr. Lee was highly skeptical regarding Mars One and suggested it might not be good for the "cause." He was supportive of Inspiration Mars and had much to say about that mission and the likelihood of survival for the astronaut couple on board. PLEASE VISIT WWW.THESPACESHOW.COM OR HTTP://THESPACESHOW.WORDPRESS.COM to read the balance of this summary. The summary review was too long for posting in full to this podcast page. Selected by: David Livingston [ stations ], Wed, 25 Sep 2013 17:01:09 UTC
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Dr. David Brin,Monday, 9-23-13 (37.72MB; download) -- Guest: Dr. David Brin. Topics: Dr. Brin discussed a wide range of topics including space, potential intelligence, personhood, sci-fi, & much more. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, http://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. Please visit www.davidbrin.com for more information & his books, www.davidbrin.com. We welcomed Dr. David Brin to the show for this 1 hour 9 minute wide ranging discussion on a variety of topics. Dr. Brin started by summarizing his background, then we talked about starships and the story he wrote for the book "Starship Century," The Heavy Generation. We talked about this science fiction story without giving away the ending and Dr. Brin said he might later turn it into a full book. Dr. Brin then talked about fairness and other society interests, some on gender differences, wastefulness of talent, plus the need to err in favor of the stated even if it was false. Listen to his explanation of this. This took us to somewhat of a political discussion regarding the state of America, science, the media, education, and more. We spent lots of time talking about science, scientists and criticism, and he explained that when he write a book, he circulates it to 50 people for harsh criticism, not flattery. Dr. Brin also talked about competition with science, suggesting it to be a highly competitive field. He talked about the upcoming Personhood Beyond The Human Conference he will be speaking at in December at Yale University regarding personhood status for dolphins and chimps. What he had to say might surprise you. Listeners asked about our media, a topic Dr. Brin had much to say about. He was also asked why it was so difficult for society to value space and its importance to our future given what we in the industry believe we know and understand about space. This was part of the overall science and media discussion. Another topic was adult science literacy. Surprises await you in this discussion. Dr. Brin had much to say about cynicism, being negative, and not understanding the gifts we have as a society and nation, and the importance of being uplifting and associating with uplifting people. We talked about Mars One, Inspiration Mars and learned that he had signed up for Mars One to help further the discussion but does not believe the mission will happen. He is supportive of Inspiration Mars but believes the launch window is too close and that the project should have started 10 to 15 years ago. We talked about space colonization, the best way to go to Mars for settlement, Apollo 8 as an inspirational model & how uplifting things are in other parts of the world such as India. Invention and creativity were also discussed and he noted that since 2001 inventing was lacking. Inventing is uplifting & we need to start inventing again in this country. Post your comments/questions on The Space Show blog. Dr. Brin can be contacted through is website. Selected by: David Livingston [ stations ], Tue, 24 Sep 2013 16:05:40 UTC
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